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Responsible drunks

I like pubs. I am drawn to their architecture inside and out, to their character, their patina and the paraphernalia of the bar itself. And when I'm having a beer in a pub I relax more than I could under a tree in a park or, heaven forbid, in a club! I don't like clubs at all, and that goes for their architecture inside and out, their cavernous emptiness and their lack of character and patina.

But I don't like all pubs. I don't stay in a pub that has drunks in the bar, and if that is a measure of the publican's responsibility I'd prefer to drink somewhere else anyway. And given the drunks' potential for violence or damage in the pub itself, let alone outside the pub, I can't understand why any publican would want drunks on the premises, law or no law.

There is the uncertainty as to what amounts to intoxication, although I remember a licensing sergeant saying to me a couple of years ago that it was not rocket science. There was no uncertainty, though, in a patron's intoxication that saw the publican of the Mary Ellen Hotel at Merewether fined $2000 in Newcastle Local Court this week. Police told the court that the drinker kept falling asleep, had trouble standing, took a sip of beer then vomited down the inside of his shirt, then left the pub to vomit outside. He'd had, he said, six or seven schooners at the hotel and a couple of big bottles of beer before he'd arrived.

I'm inclined to believe that had the publican seen this fellow in this state he'd have done something about it immediately, but if that something is putting him out on the street it is creating a bigger problem. It was, by the way, the publican's second such offence in little more than a year.

It is fair to expect that a publican or his representative makes it his or her business to cast a practised eye over patrons, but the bigger problem here, I say, is that the drunk had continued to get schooners of beer when his intoxication would have been far from uncertain.

Sure, on a busy night a publican depends to a great degree on the judgement of staff, but their training could be seen as the publican's responsibility.

But what of the Mary Ellen drinker? If it nis an offence for a publican to have an intoxicated person on the premises, should it not be an offence to be an intoxicated person on licensed premises? Intoxication is no defence against any charge. Should there be more personal responsibility, and if there is should that reduce the publican's responsibility to the individual and the community?

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Date: Newest first | Oldest first
jeff - it would be intereting to hear from the Licensees of places such as the Brewery, the Mary Ellen, The prince of Wales - just to hear from the horses mouth how hard it is to manage this issue. I reckon the operators are doing a reasonable job, in the face of quite punitive licensing laws. It is high time that punters took responsibility for themselves. Or were held accountable.
Posted by Abundance, 1/07/2009 10:49:00 AM
You see it from the patrons side of the bar Jeff. You should see the sad sights from a barkeep's perspective. The misery on the faces of most of the sad cases that prop up most bars, most days is hard to take, especially as the bar staff's job is to make them happy, sound interested in what they have to say, and sell them more booze, often in the hope that when their defenses are down they will drift over to the pokies to empty their pockets there. This is the reality of Aussie pubs today. The answer is to encourage smaller more intimate establishments, in a village atmosphere, with no pokies, where the owner needs to encourage patrons to mix and enjoy social intercourse without the need to get p*ssed out of their brains.
Posted by beverley, 1/07/2009 11:07:39 AM
Drug dealers, and that is what publicans are, should bear all the responsibility when their customers are on their premises.
Posted by Jim, 1/07/2009 11:16:37 AM
Of course drunks should be made responsible for getting themselves drunk. Just like smokers are responsible for their own health woes as a result of smoking. Just like people are responsible for their own welfare. But then smokers aren't made responsible for their own health worries. We the tax payer share paying for their poor choices. Just like we the tax payer share paying for other people welfare. It sucks that we don't make people responsible for their own behaviour. I'm with you Jeff - pubs can be great places for atmosphere and a beer. However I can't stand being there when there are pissed people about. Because generally pissed people are obnoxious people.
Posted by leahkf, 1/07/2009 11:36:06 AM
A few years ago the definition of 'drunk' was "He who lays upon the floor and cannot rise and ask for more." anything else was the degree of being affected by intoxicating liquor/drugs. If memory serves me right, in years gone by, the Police could arrest and convey to Police Station where they were charged and after a decent period, they were bailed for $1.00. This kept them safe off the streets, a place to sleep and a watchful eye on their physical condition. If they became too bad the were charged with vagrancy which gave them 6 months in Gaol. Time to put back on condition, a place to go to for Easter and Xmas for company. Then came the Civil Libertarians/Do gooders -which saw these offences being abolished and results in many a drunk being bashed/rolled for a few $'ss if any or expiring in some out of the way place during winter. God bless progress and everything put back on the Licencee who has more money to pay the new and bigger fines, or is that being cynical about the Government for the Workers of NSW.
Posted by MizJasper, 1/07/2009 11:43:48 AM
A couple of largies and seven schooners, sounds like a cheap drunk to me. He would not even get a start at our pub with that form. FAIR DINKUM what a skirt.
Posted by Chef Dude, 1/07/2009 12:03:05 PM
breath testing is easy and a defined limit. Its up to the pubs to encourage other types of drinks. Do you go to the pub for the atmosphere, people or simply to get drunk so you can't rembeber how bad the place was and how bad the people were?
Posted by Bigfeller, 1/07/2009 12:24:39 PM
wow Chef. i wasn't aware that manhood/masculinity was measured in terms of ability to consume alcohol. This bloke had consumed the equivalent of more than 14 standard drinks. I wouldn't be able to scratch myself with that much booze in my system. Then again, i'd never have that much booze in my system. As a young bloke i did the same as most others and over-indulged. The difference between me/most and some others is that i/we grew up. You only have to visit any pub on any night to see plenty that still haven't, and probably never will.
Posted by fista, 1/07/2009 12:25:26 PM
Is this the "Hairy Melon" history repeating itself ?? If you go through your history of the crossing on Glebe road outside the Mary Ellen, you will find that a few people have been hit by cars at that crossing & that is why they put traffic light up in the last few years. Most of the people that were hit at that crossing were drunk. It all comes down to the persons that run the places have a responsiblity (Duty of Care) across the board to make sure they are following the RSA policies that they have to do a course before they are allowed to work behind a bar to begin with. If the people behind a bar don't know the difference between Sober & Drunk, I think they should be looking for a new career elsewhere....
Posted by Tough Titties, 1/07/2009 1:06:48 PM
Breathalysers would serve as a valuable adjunct to determine if a patron should be refused service - particulalry the drunk and bellicose who like to argue that they are neither. It would remove the subjective nature of the assessment, and could be used at the publican's discretion. Another upside is those who have problems with speech and gait who look intoxicated but aren't would be less likely to be given the heave-ho, as unfortunately is the case at the moment. My understanding is that if someone is intoxicated on licensed premises and refuses to leave they are liable to prosecution. It is up to the licensee and his staff to make sure they don't get into the premises, or into that state while there. Sadly enforcement of all these statutes is lacking.
Posted by Directeur Sportif, 1/07/2009 3:00:47 PM
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Jeff Corbett
Bend the online ear of the Hunter's most provocative columnist.

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