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The gambling blight

The poker machines so much loved by clubs and pubs have destroyed many lives, many families, and even the industries that have grown fat on these evil gambling devices will not deny that. Oh, they'll waffle on about how much they contribute to the community, how they provide sporting facilities for children, how they encourage lonely people to make friends, but they will not be so brazen as to deny their role in the destruction of many lives.

Still, the cost in dollars for individuals and families was largely conjecture until the release this week of the Productivity Commission's draft report on gambling. The commission tells us that poker machines have by far the biggest share of Australia's gambling dollar, about 65 per cent. Interestingly, they account for more than their share of problem gamblers, 75 to 80 per cent of the total.

The greatest surprise in this report is the amount a player can lose playing what's known as "a one-cent machine". A player of such a machine can lay bets of up to $12,000 an hour, and the expected loss of such an amount is $1200 an hour! Even at half that, the commission says, the loss of someone who plays for two hours five days a week is $310,000 a year. I have seen people who would spend at least that amount of time playing poker machines, and so will you if you make it your business to visit the gambling areas of a big club on successive days.

The commission makes a number of recommendations that have earnt the immediate ire of Clubs Australia, which is testimony to their value.

The main recommendations are that the bet limit for each button push be reduced to $1, cutting maximum expected losses from $1200 an hour to $120 an hour; that gaming rooms have a longer and earlier shutdown period in each 24 hours; that players be able to set loss limits for each session; and that new laws allow gamblers to sue for compensation from clubs or pubs that entice them unfairly or improperly to gamble. An interesting suggestion, rather than a recommendation, is that after a certain expenditure in any one session a machine resets its expected loss rate to zero (it's usually about 10 per cent).

You can read the full draft report here, although you will find the overview and recommendations chapters at the beginning more approachable than the full 630 pages.

What has been your experience with poker machines? And do you think the expected loss of $120 an hour is still too great?

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Date: Newest first | Oldest first
Taking a punt seems to make up part of the Australian psyche. Well for Some Australians anyway. One of the biggest issues to do with pokies is the antisocial aspect of pokies. You sit there by yourself pressing buttons in hope of something great happening. It completely stops any interaction, conversation and helps people that are shy and introverted to remain that way. But is this any different to gambling on lotteries? RSL art unions? The Races? I don't know why I don't have a gambling psyche, but even with my sisters champion horse the most I bet was $50. After a while it was hardly worth betting as even though he kept winning, the returns were getting smaller. And the couple of times I won on $5 trifecta's was great fun, but that was as far as I let it go. I believe those horrible clubs that proclaim to be fun social places are anything but. They contribute more to the breakdown in the moral fabric of society.
Posted by leahkf, 23/10/2009 9:17:24 AM, on The Herald
The clubs "pretend" they put things back into the community with donations but they are forced to do this by law! I would like to see pokies outlawed and greater restrictions on other forms of legal gambling. But the government won't act. It needs the millions in taxes, despite the terrible social cost to the community.
Posted by Maitland, 23/10/2009 9:36:58 AM, on The Herald
I'm not aware of that law, Maitland. Can you offer more information?
Posted by Jeff Corbett on 23/10/2009 9:45:43 AM
I find poker machines to be extremely dull, but that goes for all forms of gambling. My greatest concern is that those who can afford it least seem to be the ones who indulge the most. Would there be some merit in "quarantining" at least a portion of government welfare benefits for food, rent and clothing only to ensure that a family’s basic needs are met, rather than the lot ending up in a poker machine.
Posted by Directeur Sportif, 23/10/2009 9:39:05 AM, on The Herald
Gamblers will always find a way to try and beat the odds. That is a safe bet. Perhaps the most insidious is the proliferation of poker machines into the hotels. At least with the Clubs, membership or being signed into a Club as a visitor, placed some restrictions on the abililty to gamble on the pokies. With the free for all now in place, profits out of hotels go to State Government and Hoteliers pockets. At least Clubs returned not indifferent sums back into the community helping the less fortunate. Now it is only the profit they bring the Licencee/ Company/ Liquor Companies and if that is doubted, check the price of a hotel licence now, compared to the days before poker machines were placed into any of these establishments.
Posted by MizJasper, 23/10/2009 9:45:50 AM, on The Herald
Personally, I have never played the pokies, and, have doubted the benefit in real terms to the community, as the clubs say they do. Would people still play them if the prize was only redeemable as a food voucher ? The South Sydney Rabbitohs are ridding themselves of pokies, and replacing revenue with an IGA supermarket on club site (subject to approval); a gamble in itself. Will that idea be sufficient to replace lost revenue from pokies ?, I doubt it. However, I do admire them for the initiative to change. The loss per hour should be no greater than the hourly rate of the average wage earner.
Posted by Jozep, 23/10/2009 9:46:57 AM, on The Herald
The biggest addiction is the State Goverments insatiable need for any type of gambling. Pokies are a curse, they cause more hardship than ever reported. Again we have another commission that has made toothless recommendations because of Government addiction and the power of the Liquor industry. All that is needed is for a card to be inserted as a on/off switch, all gamblers have to have this card issued from the state government. Payouts can only be issued to the card holder. That way compulsive gamblers or anyone not wanting to loose money can leave the card at home or not have one. It is really simple, but the Government shudders at this, because of the lost revenue. The hotel industry and the government live on blood money.
Posted by buell, 23/10/2009 10:04:14 AM, on The Herald
It's a double edged sword this modern world of ours, isn't it? We want safer roads and more stringent drink driving laws but pub and club revenue suffered. The pubs bolstered their survival by lobbying for poker machine licences and they were successful. The roads became safer but now we have problem gambling due to the proliferation of the beast. Surely banning them will sign the death warrant for many a club... I'm sure a few will survive, but when a small pub in a village with less than 100 residents can make $3000 a week from its four poker machines, I'm sure it's going to hurt the majority.... And where will the government pick up the millions in lost revenue? By doubling the tax on alcohol and cigarettes maybe? We want people to give those up too don't we? I can hear publicans and Club boards gasping for breath already... Their death warrnat may not have yet been signed, but the shackles are ready to go on...
Posted by crusty, 23/10/2009 10:14:24 AM, on The Herald
Ah the pokies ever since i saw the flashing lights through a slit in the patician while tucking into chicken maryland with nan at stockton RSL ive been hooked. I have put thousands into these things,worst of all was when the pubs got the approvals for them,there was nowhere to hide for a quiet ale ,cmon give us twenty somebody would say and i would still be standing in front of a machine long after the initial twenty had been devoured and mates had dispersed.I cant agree with limiting high end wagers most people i know play a limit they are comfortable with and like to splash every now and then on a gut feeling.also limiting times of operation is discriminate against the shift worker who likes to dabble at different hours to the regular 9 to 5 punter.My ideas would be (as silly as it sounds)to slow the reels down also instead of limiting the max bet go back to limiting the pay lines ,some are fifty line machines and people dont want to miss a pay so they play max lines.All i can say is thank god for the introduction of texas poker in pubs and clubs,its saved my bank account ,very cheap and sociable form of gambling.
Posted by horse, 23/10/2009 10:17:35 AM, on The Herald
this is an issue that makes my blood boil and alters my Perspective, thus the return of the Fista. Clubs DO make generous contributions to the community groups in their areas, but only after raping the very same community through these parasitic machines. I cannot understand how the (generally) very fine people who run these clubs rationalise this. I support a ban on all poker machines, with the exception of casinos. They are a curse, and as rightly pointed out above, the strongest addiction to these is the government's addiction to the revenue. Unlike normal "user pays" scenarios though, which i support, this is targetted at those with addictions and that is unfair and unreasonable, in my opinion.
Posted by fista, 23/10/2009 10:36:43 AM, on The Herald
The people who run these clubs see the impact of poker machines every day, fista. The senior staff of the big clubs know the players who put huge amounts through the machines - they know them by sight, by reputation and probably by a nickname. In many cases they will know how much that person contributes each day or week, and they will marvel at the amounts. I've heard some of them do just that. How do they rationalise their role in this? Easy. They're just doing their job, they say. And they're happy to see it that way because the big pokie players are paying their fat salary.
Posted by Jeff Corbett on 23/10/2009 12:05:54 PM
Every poker machine user I've talked to insists that it's not about gambling, they're just doing it for fun... to kill time. In that case, nobody should object to a low maximum loss-rate. I think $20/hr would be more than enough. The clubs might be upset, but this would just force them to go back to the methods of generating revenue that they used decades ago, before they became glorified casinos.
Posted by Jim M., 23/10/2009 11:04:18 AM, on The Herald
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Jeff Corbett
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