He's a shy, giggly 12-year-old who loves rugby league, PlayStation and Hungry Jack's.
Yet this western Sydney boy has also been branded Australia's youngest terror suspect, a revelation that shocked the country earlier this month and prompted state and federal politicians to debate new laws targeting pre-teens.
The family of the boy accused of being part of a major Sydney terrorist cell have spoken for the first time, revealing to Fairfax Media what they say is the true story behind the extraordinary accusation. And, in a revelation that questions the effectiveness of deradicalisation efforts, the boy's family says his mother has never been contacted by authorities to discuss what could be done to help him.
The boy, who cannot be identified due to his age, is one of 18 males a Sydney court has ordered a 20-year-old terrorism suspect not to communicate with, in a bid to thwart an alleged attack.
Most were targeted in last year's Operation Appleby raids following an alleged phone call between Omarjan Azari and Islamic State recruiter Mohammad Ali Baryalei about killing a non-believer.
News of the boy's inclusion in what the Australian Federal Police call the Naizmand Group emerged this month, after three members were detained as part of the investigation into the Parramatta police shooting.
One of them, Raban Alou, 18, was charged for allegedly providing the handgun that Farhad Jabar used to kill police employee Curtis Cheng.
The "close-knit group ... are in frequent communication, often in relation to matters reflecting their shared extreme Islamist ideology. They continue to express support for the terrorist organisation, the Islamic State, or their desire to become a martyr, or to commit jihad," the AFP stated in the control order.
However, the boy's mother, aunt and grandfather told Fairfax Media of their shock as they sat in front of their television last week and saw reports of a boy, whose birth date and family links matched their 12-year-old's, being part of the group.
It was the first they knew of him being on any terrorism watch list.
"Everyone was calling us, everyone was calling [the boy], we couldn't believe what was happening. His mother ended up in hospital," his aunt said.
The 12-year-old lives in western Sydney with his little brother and mother. He is close with his eight aunts and uncles.
He started at a public high school this year but was bullied for being overweight and is now home-schooled, spending most of his time with his mother.
When Fairfax Media spoke to him this week with the consent of his family, he was shy and softly spoken. He said he wanted to be an engineer one day.
"I don't care, it's silly," he said, when asked about his inclusion on the watch list. "I'm not a terrorist, I haven't been radicalised."
Asked by his aunt what radicalised means, he said "umm I don't know".
The boy's family believe he has been named in the Naizmand Group because of his relatives.
One is in Goulburn SuperMax for an ATM ram-raid and a telephone threat to kill an ASIO officer. Another is also in SuperMax for the ram-raid, which authorities believe was an attempt to source money for foreign fighters.
One prison source has described the two men as charismatic and incredibly influential among Muslim inmates.
When asked by Fairfax Media, the AFP wouldn't elaborate on why the 12-year-old was included in the group, which includes other SuperMax inmates and men accused of conspiring to commit terrorist acts.
Over the past weeks, the family had noticed increased attention on him. When they went for a weekend away recently to Leura, followed by a trip to Goulburn, some of his friends received calls from ASIO asking what the boy was doing in the Blue Mountains.
"They linked our holiday to a terrorist attack," his aunt said.
After news broke that he was on the control order, friends' parents began cancelling play dates and the boy had trouble sleeping.
His family have pleaded with authorities to think about the impact it will have on him.
"At the moment we're trying to protect him from it and trying to make sure he grows up healthy and happy with the same opportunities as anyone else but we're terrified [the police] are trying to make him something he's not by association," the aunt said. "What's going to happen if children don't want to play with him? What's going to happen if he can't get a proper job? We don't want him to feel socially isolated or disoriented."
They say his mother has never been consulted or informed about the concerns over her son. She is planning to mount a legal challenge to have him removed from the control order.
"If you were really concerned about this child, if you really believed he was being brainwashed or was in danger, why would you not go straight to his mother, the one person who would do anything to make sure he's not being harmed?" the aunt said.
The boy's inclusion in the Naizmand Group has highlighted the changing nature of the terror threat, with AFP Commissioner Andrew Colvin saying he was "shocked that a 12-year-old is on the police radar for these type of matters".
"This threat has evolved, it's become younger," Commissioner Colvin said.
"We saw the very tragic events in Parramatta ... that involved a 15-year-old and I think that's the most shocking part."
Premier Mike Baird and federal Attorney-General George Brandis have since indicated their desire to lower the minimum age for control orders from 16 to 14. Federal Justice Minister Michael Keenan said he was open to lowering it to 12.
However, Australian Lawyers Alliance spokesman Greg Barns warned the approach would backfire, particularly when not accompanied by other measures such as community support programs, as is the case with the 12-year-old.
"If you want to further radicalise kids, if you want them feeling they are completely alienated from society ... then you're going the right way about it," he said.
"The sledgehammer approach does not work with juveniles at all."